CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Courtesy of Gamespot we've got word that the 360 will be finally getting the Wii touch. PDP, the company responsible will be bundling the new peripheral with a game called "squeeballs" which just... sounds like some odd vasquezish pong.

The difference in technology is the placement of sensorbars. This peripheral will use two bars placed on either side of the TV to track movements. It will also, like the Wii, allow for four units to function at the same time.

I'm pretty non-plussed by the news myself. Personally, I've been thoroughly OK with the old paradigm of game design and haven't really missed having motion control on the 360. PS3 owners will attest that they don't miss it either, though some words can be said about the quality of the design and implementation there too.

I would also cast doubts simply because it's a peripheral being tacked on to the console relatively late in the 360's life cycle. Considering this was not the system's original design or direction, I doubt it will get much use as not many developers are going to spring out to design games for it. I suspect we will get the usual crapware gimmicks, but nothing of real depth beyond that.

...for a second I thought this might have been an April Fools joke (heck I still don't believe this is legit)...but then I noticed it wasn't written on April 1...I really don't know what to say about this...

I can tell you what to think of it. RIP FREAKIN' OFF.

If that is real, that is sad.

Nintendo isn't making gobs of money because it has motion controls, it is making gobs of money because it dared to think outside the box and break away from a decades old race towards better graphics. If Xbox really wants to go with the casual gamer route and become competitive at it, it needs to reinvent itself and try to get a market share in Japan or something. I doubt tacking on a cheap gimmick is going to do anything more then elicit groans.

This should do about as well as the eye-toy did for the PS2. Of course, at least that was somewhat innovative. What games will actually use this thing?

ich1990 (post: 1303611) wrote:because it dared to think outside the box

Nintendo didn't dare to think outside the box, they were pretty much forced to because they were losing the console wars.

How can Microsoft think outside of the box when their console is still called...the X-BOX?

*two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff*

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1303601) wrote:I would also cast doubts simply because it's a peripheral being tacked on to the console relatively late in the 360's life cycle. Considering this was not the system's original design or direction, I doubt it will get much use as not many developers are going to spring out to design games for it. I suspect we will get the usual crapware gimmicks, but nothing of real depth beyond that.

You pretty much took the words out of my mouth. It's a little late now, Microsoft! If they want to go that direction, maybe they should just wait til the next gen. Plus motion control takes creative developers to be cool. You can't just put any crap game out with OOH SHINY MOTION CONTROL or motion control will become the next Virtual Boy.

I personally think Wii did so well in large part because of the "shortage" and the hype and the fact that it was something new nobody else was doing. X360 doesn't have all that stuff to ride on so they'll have to make good software for it or it'll just be wasted effort.

Also worth putting out that although they are getting support from MS for this product, the controller is not actually being designed, produced, or manufactured by Microsoft.

Although it's a blatant grab for the same kind of control scheme, I would hesitate to call it a ripoff on the basis that if console manufacturers begin to believe that the Wii control scheme is the next big step for control schemes it will be adopted wholesale regardless. When a control scheme works, it's adopted widely. First it happened with the Nintendo and Supernintendo, and later with the Playstation's Dual Shock. Granted, I like the existing control paradigm, developers may be feeling it's time for a shift and that Nintendo has shown them which way to go.

The problem is that the Wii's control scheme doesn't 'work' as universally as a standard controller. Yes, it allows for things that are not possible with a traditional controller, but the traditional controllers are more versatile.

Yes, it allows for things that are not possible with a traditional controller, but the traditional controllers are more versatile.

Not necessarily. Sure, there are a few more buttons on the traditional controllers, but not that many more. How many games do you know that would require two control sticks, as opposed to one stick + motion sensing?

Firstly, a few buttons makes a massive difference.

Secondly, design is a consideration. Motion detection, even on the Wii, is actually pretty lousy for anything beyond pointing at a spot on the screen, which has it's own limitations. Furthermore, the difficulty of trying to manipulate more than 2-3 different buttons while waving a stick around in your hand is a significantly more difficult process than using an analog stick and having access to other buttons. With the right hand alone on a PS controller or 360 controller you have access to 7 buttons, 3 of which can work simulaneously with the analog stick, and the other 4 are an effortless jump back and forth.

Adding to that, the only actual FUNCTION you can do with a Wii controller is the ability to point at a specific place on the screen. Everything else you can do with it because of it's accelerometers is pure gimmick, and is generally served better by an analog stick, or other functions.

I remember an article where Bill gates was trying the wii, he said he liked it. Thus I have just been waiting for this moment to happen.

Even the PS3 controller makes use of the "waggle" thing, but not all that much, really. For the 360 to do this now, after the console has already been on the market for so long (and established itself so well) . . . what's the point?

TriezGamer (post: 1303894) wrote:Secondly, design is a consideration. Motion detection, even on the Wii, is actually pretty lousy for anything beyond pointing at a spot on the screen, which has it's own limitations. Furthermore, the difficulty of trying to manipulate more than 2-3 different buttons while waving a stick around in your hand is a significantly more difficult process than using an analog stick and having access to other buttons. With the right hand alone on a PS controller or 360 controller you have access to 7 buttons, 3 of which can work simulaneously with the analog stick, and the other 4 are an effortless jump back and forth.

I can happily declare that this has been my experience with the Wii (mostly while playing NCAA O9 where I am required to do Wiimote waving while pressing the rather small, poorly placed d-pad...)...ok not happily declare it...it's rather frustrating really...seriously, I can't tell you what I would do just to get the option to use a normal controller with NCAA 09. It worked soo much better...

Anyway, yeah, the Wii controler was innovated but for some games it just doesn't work (like NCAA 09 for instance...). However, none of this really matters because Nintendo has sold itself out to the gimmicky casual gamers market resulting in every third party developer to follow in suit. So, some genres that could work great on the Wii seem to be getting passed up purely because the casual game market is racking in so much money. For instance, the Wii had some real potential to have the best FPS (control wise) on any of the consoles. So far...there's only one that's done the control scheme decently and it arguably wasn't even an FPS (I'm gazing fondly at you MP3). Now, maybe the Conduit will make FPS somewhat popular on the Wii (at the very least it looks like it could be the first legitimate FPS of good quality)...but frankly, I don't think so.

All ranting aside, what I should have said earlier was this. The Wiimote was a good idea, however it was not the next wave in controllers like Nintendo was making it out to be. The regular controler is still better for 90% of the games out there with the other 10% being better on a PC with a mouse and keyboard. I could see the Wiimote surviving as an extra perphiral but not as a main controller...of course who knows...people like to copy Nintendo, maybe they'll make it the next controller just because of that...

SpoonyBard (post: 1303930) wrote:Even the PS3 controller makes use of the "waggle" thing, but not all that much, really. For the 360 to do this now, after the console has already been on the market for so long (and established itself so well) . . . what's the point?

Actually, the PS3 controllers cut out the sixaxis for a few reasons. First, they kissed and made up with the company that makes rumble tech, so they could start using that in their controllers again. Second, terrible design. Third, worse implementation.

Ironically, after the new controllers came out everyone discovered it wasn't sixaxis that made Lair a bad game. It was evidently just a bad game.

You guys must be trying to play the wrong games on a wii... Wii has lousy motion control besides just pointing at the screen? Maybe if you're playing some crap game like Red Steel or something, ok. But a game like Red Steel is not why you'd buy a wii in the first place. Frustrting controls? Ok the basketball game... something else I wouldn't have bought a wii for.

As the more casual gamer myself, I'm not really interested in playing FPS and such. And for what I look for (the fun party games and stuff like Mario Kart Wii and stuff), I've had no problems with the Wii motes motion control abilities at all. Even with crappy third party games like Speed Racer, it still had amazing control (seriously, Speed Racer probably had better and more smoother control than mario kart... just the game itself was quite boring, lame 2 player mode, and rubber banded opponents... but the attacks and all the stuff you did with the motion control of the wii worked amazing well).

I never said that the Wii controller doesn't work well with what it does. It's that, apart from the ability to point at a specific point on the screen, generally speaking an analog stick works BETTER for any particular function than the Wiimote does. Now, as you admit, you are more interested in casual games -- That's great, because the Wii is designed for that crowd, and the games are built with that controller in mind. But for non-casual gaming, very few genres benefit from the Wii's controller, and many of them suffer for it.

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1303948) wrote:Actually, the PS3 controllers cut out the sixaxis for a few reasons. First, they kissed and made up with the company that makes rumble tech, so they could start using that in their controllers again. Second, terrible design. Third, worse implementation.

Oh, really? I have a PS3 and I did not even know that.

SpoonyBard (post: 1304042) wrote:Oh, really? I have a PS3 and I did not even know that.

The change was not... widely advertised. You can still buy the sixaxis controllers, I believe, but I don't think many games are really being developed for it anymore.

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1303948) wrote:Actually, the PS3 controllers cut out the sixaxis for a few reasons.

Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Folklore, Resistance, Haze, and most likely KZ2 (though I haven't played much of it, so I could be wrong) disagree with you... As does Rub a Dub, blast factor...

It is literally impossible to play those games without sixaxis functions... The balance things in uncharted, ratchet and clank's skydiving, folklore's soul taking, Resistance and Haze (yeah yeah, haze)'s fire extinguishing, Rub a Dub's... only way to play it, blast factor's sweeping blast thing needed for about 2/3 of the levels...

They have never cut out sixaxis, and in fact can't, as many games do require it. The problem with a game like Lair was that they were making it the sole way to control something, but when uses sparingly and wisely (as all of those games do, IMNSHO,) it actually works. As for games that do it as an OPTION but not required, I prefer to use motion in Motorstorm, and prefer the sticks in Warhawk and Heavenly Sword...

By the way, can anyone tell me if Motorstorm 2 gives you the option to use tilt? That's actually my sole requirement for getting it, because I otherwise hate racing games, but with the destruction in MS, combined with the motion controls (that often lead to more destruction) that would push me over to getting it.

As for the topic on hand, meh... People female dogged and moaned about the sixaxis which isn't even all that much like the wiimote (not even the first controller in the Playstation's history to use that functionality). How do you think they'll respond to this? Hahah... MS may as well have painted a target on the thing.

I stand greatly corrected. I apologize. I'd been assuming based on some old articles from around the time the settlement had come with Sony and Immersion. There had been some statements lending that they would not be able to do both but I've double checked and yep they can and do.

For those not Bob, the fundamental difference between Sixaxis and the Wii is that the Wii primarily uses a combination of accelerometers and infrared camera detection to create it's effects whereas the PS3 is pure accelerometer. Honestly, given the choice between the two I'd pick the PS3. I like the wii, no lying, but it's sort of like how the keyboard could most definitely be streamlined in design, but we're all so used to what we have now that we accept it. I'm all for the traditional control paradigm.

The problem I have with this controller is that it's not an official XBox made controller which means that it will not have games made specifically for it to implement the features. This allows for only movements to be mapped as button presses and really making it no better than any other controller. The Wii, however, is built strictly around the controller design and Wiimotion+ will allow full usage of the Wii's capabilities.
I have no faith in this controller and will stick to the original one which I like.

That DS pen looks odd...

Ah, I stand corrected as well... I didn't notice this wasn't officially Microsoft. Nevermind, then.

MS has been pretty reticent to add this function to a pre-existing system for, I guess, quality reasons (lol).