CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

This is a thread devoted to the man responsible for the MGS games. I should have probably called this the MGS thread buuuut he still did some great work with Zone of the Enders 1 and 2nd runner so discuss away.

Video games can be art.

.rai//

What Rai said.

MGS is the definition of art.

without a doubt.

In regard to the Kojima and Ebert statements. C.S. Lewis once told a child the best way to read the Narnia books is Chronologically, even though the logical flow through the books takes place through the published order and it creates problems when read Chronologically (particularly with Magician's Nephew which contains a couple spoilers for other books in the series)

Authors can be wrong about their own work. The Metal Gear games are definately art, whether Kojima thinks they are or not. You can't deny they were his expression. With that out of the way, I'm pretty sure Metal Gear is the only really good thing to come out of this crazy brilliant game director (I've heard stuff about Snatcher and Policenauts, and I didn't much get into ZOE.) He is a one trick pony, but that trick is good enough to keep me going two more games, and no more after that.

I am an aspiring game designer one day, and as much as I have the highest respect for Kojima and his work, I most definately disagree about his viewing as games not being art.

To create a such a beautiful masterpiece of storytelling as the Metal Gear Solid series, and not consider video games art, the guy must be a nut job. A genius nut job, but a nut job, nonetheless.

kaemmerite wrote:http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/03/30

Oh, that is so flipping funny! hahahahahahahahahhahaha


Man... that's a keeper.

I can't wait to play MGS4 not only just to play it but to see what comes next from Kojima.

From what I've played Metal Gear is un doubtably the best thing he's made but I really like the gameplay of Zone Of Enders, it's a real break from all the slow moving mech games out there.

After Metal Gear I would really like to see him and Suda 51 (Killer 7) make a game. They have already talked about how they would like too. The best part would be the insane story that I could gloat about understanding what little sense it makes.


However, Seeing Kojima and Tomonobu Itagaki (Dead or Alive, Ninja Gaiden) would prolly be my dream game. Just picture a Ninja (Female) fighting a walking nuclear death-mobile after finding out she's just a clone of Big Kunoichi.

Yesssss....

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:MGS is the definition of art.

No.

"The quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance" is.

The following is my opinion; and should be taken as an opinion that can potentially change, and is in no way intended to frustrate, irritate, or otherwise anger anyone:

In My opinion, Hideo Kojima's games are not art. They are not made to be such. They are made simply to entertain. Hideo is an entertainer, and sees himself as such. He mimics the cinematography of hollywood in order to help himself attain his goal of entertaining.

This is not to say that games cannot be art. They are an extremely capable medium. They provide a wonderful 3-D canvas on which the artist can create his world; tell his story, deliver his self expression.

Also, it should be noted that calling something "not art" is not an insult. There is plenty of music in the world that is not art, but is still great and entertaining. There are lots of drawings in the world; but not all of them are art. The same goes for movies and video games. Some are art; others are not. I believe that the intent of the creator must be to create art for it to qualify as art.



I'm sure that the opinion I have shared will be fairly controversial; so please discuss in an intelligent and flame-resistant manner. The reason I share this opinion with you is that I feel it is more harmful to point at Hideo Kojima's games as examples of art than it is helpful when debating the viability of games as an art form. When the very man you point to as a great artist tells everyone that he is not creating art, then the debate is already over. Please, point at more artistic games, such as Okami or Ico.

I think it's not entirely the artist's intent, but you're definitely on the right course . . .

.rai//

I'm with Raiden. I don't think you can say, "The creator says it isn't art so it isn't art." Art is many things to many people.

"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art." - Andy Warhol

It may not be art to me, it may not be art to the creator, but it may be art to someone. On the other hand, just because its creator deems it to be art doesn't make it so. Some serial killers see their murders as "art" but I think you'd be hard pressed to find many non-psychotic people who agree.