CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

The Rumored 4th Triforce in the LEGEND OF ZELDA SERIES must exist. This is why.

1) In Ocarina of Time on Link's Shield there is a fourth triforce piece below the birdlike creature, showing that it has been separated from the other three.

2) Tetra in WW. Tetra means 4.

3) Legend of Zelda 4 swords... coincidence? i think not. Green= courage, red = power, blue = wisdom... what does the purple = ?

4) in Majora's Mask there are 4 Giants, 4 crucial elements to stop the impending moon.

And there you have 4 reasons for the 4th Triforce piece!

Hmm, good eye, but I doubt Nintendo will change the name to "tetraforce" anytime soon.

Hmm.. I'll have a little fun with this "what if?"..

Red is normally associated with War, Blood, or Communism.. so,"power" or Gannon makes sense.

Green is normally associated with youthful or recruit.. so, "Courage" or Young Link makes sense.

Blue is sometimes associated with Aristocratic or noble... so, I guess Zelda or "Wisdom" makes sense

Purple.... all I can find is Royal or imperial... so, maybe the King? I dunno.
Or maybe Mysterious? – You know, like the Protoss side in Starcraft or something. *shrugs* -or perhaps, Vaati from Minish Cap... he was purple.

I think the biggest reason people continue to advance this idea is because there's a triangular hole in the Triforce, nothing else. That doesn't mean they can't, of course...

On one hand, there is a valid statement that if there were four parts, it wouldn't be called the Triforce. Then again, a fourth, inverted triangle would actually make one larger triangle, to which "tri" would still apply.

And the fact that originally there were only 2 separate Triforces... That of Wisdom and Power... Courage didnt come along until later... thus this 4th may not come along until later (Zelda2005? hmmmn)

Green= courage, red = power, blue = wisdom

NO NO NO!!! (gets overly angry for what appears like no apparent reason. But goes to suggest that he has a rebuttle for this argument.

1. You've got green and blue flipped, by means of both the Zelda videos and my massive Zelda comic collection one would immidiately see that the green triforce of wisdom is held in the castle of Hyrule, while the blue triforce or the triforce of wisdom is held by link but is never apparently visable but is rather hidden within his heart.

2. As a rebuttle, I shall note that in the first legends of Zelda, Link was not a hethen but actually had a cross on his shield for the first two games (not that it has anything to do with my arguement its just...) ... after this however the Evil Nintendo changed the shape of Hyrule eliminated the nation of Catalina to the west (Links true home nation) and forced Link to convert to polyiethism (the terrible power of story writers) . Note however that the triforce is inseperable to the value three, it has three points, three sides and if you put three of them together you get yet a larger triangle. Of course it is rumored that if one were to have all three triforces that they combine to form one final triforce that is a combination of all three, however this never happens in the comics. There is one time when Link obtains the triforce of power, (kicking the pig-faced Gannon over to the side) but consequently loses the triforce of courage and commences to turn into Gannons form in spirit and shape. It is suggested by the comic then that perhaps Gannon was once good too before he gained the triforce of power.

I believe the true answer lies in the hidden Zelda Games on 3D0 (which had sweet graphics but died young). There lies the truth to all Zelda games. Realising that I have shared knowlege that I was ONCE a Zelda game fan freak (obsessed, I even had a costum made for me where I dressed like Link and went to the renasance festival in it!) I imidiatly hide.

Added after more info found,

And the fact that originally there were only 2 separate Triforces... That of Wisdom and Power... Courage didnt come along until later... thus this 4th may not come along until later (Zelda2005? hmmmn)

As stated earlier the triforce of Courage existed from the first Zeldas...

Linksquest wrote:And the fact that originally there were only 2 separate Triforces... That of Wisdom and Power... Courage didnt come along until later... thus this 4th may not come along until later (Zelda2005? hmmmn)

Actually, I believe that in the backstory for the first game the Triforce of Courage was mentioned. It was in the cartoon version (if that counts for anything).

Pascal wrote:Link was not a hethen but actually had a cross on his shield for the first two games (not that it has anything to do with my arguement its just...) ... after this however the Evil Nintendo changed the shape of Hyrule eliminated the nation of Catalina to the west (Links true home nation) and forced Link to convert to polyiethism (the terrible power of story writers)

I believe the cross on his shield is stylistic and originates from the crusades, not Christ.

Pascal wrote:Of course it is rumored that if one were to have all three triforces that they combine to form one final triforce that is a combination of all three, however this never happens in the comics.

It does in A Link to the Past, but only at the end of the game (they remained seperate, but held by one person they had incredible power). The consequences of this are not explored by the game, but I have heard from other sources that Link then led his people to an age of light.

I wrote a response for this two nights ago and couldn't post it. uc touched on some of it, but I'm too lazy to edit what I already wrote, so here goes. ^^;;

If you go by the cartoon (Ex-CUUUUUUSE me, Princess ), The Triforce of Wisdom is indeed green, and the Triforce of Power is red. In the games, however, they are all three gold. Evidence:

Legend of Zelda: The eight Triforce pieces Link collects (Triforce of Wisdom) are gold.

Link to the Past: At the beginning of the game, the three pieces of the Triforce, all gold, float down and combine in the center of the screen. Further, after beating Ganon, Link touches the unified Triforce, of which all three parts are gold. While you stated, Pascal, that it never unified in the comics, it does in LttP at the end, and also at the end of Windwaker.

Ocarina of Time: When telling the story about the three goddesses leaving Hyrule, it shows the place where they exited, and the Triforce is completely gold. Further, Ocarina of Time states that the Triforce was formed by the goddesses exiting Hyrule. It shows the Triforce's formation, and there is indeed a hole in the middle of the Triforce, thus disproving any existance of a "fourth" piece. If there WERE a fourth Triforce, it would have to be a manmade or false Triforce, as the Triforce only had three parts when the goddesses created it.

Windwaker: The Triforce of Courage Link collects is gold, and when the King of Hyrule combines the two pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom, it is also gold. At the end, the unified Triforce is shown once again, and all three parts are gold.

Pascal wrote:It is suggested by the comic then that perhaps Gannon was once good too before he gained the triforce of power.

To me, the comics are not part of the storyline of the Zelda universe. In my opinion, the only valid sources are the games themselves, and Ganon's background has already been revealed. He is a Gerudo thief who got close to the King of Hyrule in order to obtain the Triforce and gain control of the land. In Windwaker, it is revealed that Ganon had good intentions. He states that the winds were harsh and burning during the day in the desert, and at night the winds were cold and freezing. Either way, they brought death...but the winds in Hyrule brought life. He coveted those winds, and in an effort to save his people, he sought the Triforce.

Even if Ganon had good intentions, the ends do not justify the means, therefore he could not be considered good.

kaemmerite wrote:It shows the Triforce's formation, and there is indeed a hole in the middle of the Triforce, thus disproving any existance of a "fourth" piece. If there WERE a fourth Triforce, it would have to be a manmade or false Triforce, as the Triforce only had three parts when the goddesses created it.

Then again, Nintendo has altered timelines of the world ("first adventure of Link" anyone?) before, so they could well change things again (for example, a force even prior to the Goddesses). But I concur that if we define the Triforce as the power left by the Goddesses, there are definitely only three.

kaemmerite wrote:In my opinion, the only valid sources are the games themselves,

I agree in this regard. While I think that one can draw the lines for valid sources at any point (all of it is merely different people's takes on a single world), I feel this is the most reasonable place to draw a line.

All of this is interesting. However, I generally believe that the Zelda games typically take place in multiple universes, unless it is specifically stated otherwise(OoT and MM for example). So then, the stories around the Tri-Force would vary as Nintendo keeps "reinventing" Hyrule...

If it counts for anything regarding the colors of the Tri-Forces:
Din - The Goddess of Power and/or The Oracle of Seasons has red hair.
Nayru - The Goddess of Wisdom and/or The Oracle of Ages has blue hair.
Farore - The Goddess of Courage and/or The Oracle of......I forget....has green hair.

MasterDias wrote:Farore - The Goddess of Courage and/or The Oracle of......I forget....has green hair.

Oracle of Secrets.

perhaps it is not a 4th triforce to look for, but the means in which the other 3 can be controled, perhaps the triangular hole is for a relic or spiritual item of some sort that is powerful enough to control the powers of the 3 triforces, just a conjecture though

i must confess i'm not that much of a legend of zelda fan, but i do remember the good old days when it was shown on the super mario bros. tv show, so i am somewhat familiar with the triforces and gannon and all that,

'nuff said

.... Colors... i know that the triforces themselves change color from game to game... the green wisdom and the red power, then gold, etc. etc. but from game to game a color theme as Blue is Wisdom, green is Courage, and Red is power exists.

think about the spiritual stones... LInk is green cause of the clothes he wears the kokiri forest where the spiritual stone comes from... etc.

Blue is wisdom, blue is from the zoras...

Red is from the gorons. the power of the volcano.. Ganondorf's hair is red... etc..


there are many more associations besides those (which i mainly took from OoT)

Also, if following the timeline, OoT is supposedly the FIRST chronolgicaly, then, those three colors are the basis of all the future TRIFORCE colors... etc...

Din is red
Farore is Green
and Nayru is Blue (SP)

they created the triforce with their colors so i think the colors thus transfer as well

ALSO one more thing... i frgt, but i believe that courage wast a tangeable triforce like the power and wisdom were... it dwelled within Link...

maybe the fourth triforce in the center is the triforce of "void" it controls the power of nothingness, however you can only have it if you have... nothing. It gives the user the special abilities of nothiness including floating through earth walls, breaking the speed of light, being capable of attacking an octorok an infinite amount of times and doing zero damage, but as a consequence you are also invinsible! Nothing can defeat you but because you are nothing you can't defeat yourself, actually because you are nothing you don't even exist! We must seek the this new triforce, I hear that it can be found by clicking the power button on your gaming system. This will result in Link abandoning everything and becomming nothing, if your T.V. is on he can surround the many people on your T.V. Screens and holds the same nothingness powers he would hold in the game!

Pascal

Linksquest wrote:ALSO one more thing... i frgt, but i believe that courage wast a tangeable triforce like the power and wisdom were... it dwelled within Link...

Actually, in Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, the point of the game was to obtain the Triforce of Courage to awaken the sleeping Zelda. So it obviously had to have been a tangible Triforce, or else Link wouldn't have had to go on that quest at all.

Well if you check out certain LOZ websites, you will find the timeline. Ocarina of Time is where the game series originally starts. he Adventures of Link and so on are the sequals. So there are Prequals and Sequals, just like starwars. Anyways my point is, find the timelines and read all about it, and you will see how truly the depth of the series is. If you guys don't have any Ocarina's, here's a site to buy your own fans of LOZ like me. it's http://www.clayz.com/
you will find alot of Ocarinas, I got the Blue Ocarina of Time, Porcelain by the way.hehe.

Actually, in Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, the point of the game was to obtain the Triforce of Courage to awaken the sleeping Zelda.

Im talken about the first game and the cartoon series here n_n!

and there is a def a change within the triforces and their color associations betwixt games... i am still learning the histories of all the zelda games myself, so dont be too harsh if i ahve said things that arent true. Pwease n_n. And if i have erred, i apoligize T_T

Pascal wrote:maybe the fourth triforce in the center is the triforce of "void" it controls the power of nothingness, however you can only have it if you have... nothing. It gives the user the special abilities of nothiness including floating through earth walls, breaking the speed of light, being capable of attacking an octorok an infinite amount of times and doing zero damage, but as a consequence you are also invinsible! Nothing can defeat you but because you are nothing you can't defeat yourself, actually because you are nothing you don't even exist! We must seek the this new triforce, I hear that it can be found by clicking the power button on your gaming system. This will result in Link abandoning everything and becomming nothing, if your T.V. is on he can surround the many people on your T.V. Screens and holds the same nothingness powers he would hold in the game!

Pascal

That's an interesting premise, that even though there isn't a fourth Triforce the remnants of the Goddesses' power still leaves some force other than the primary three. A vacuum is only a lack of matter, but it contains significant force. I doubt they'll ever do anything with this, but still, it is interesting.

definitly

starwarsboy90 wrote:Well if you check out certain LOZ websites, you will find the timeline. Ocarina of Time is where the game series originally starts. he Adventures of Link and so on are the sequals. So there are Prequals and Sequals, just like starwars. Anyways my point is, find the timelines and read all about it, and you will see how truly the depth of the series is.

The thing is (and we've had a thread about this before), you really can't put the Zelda games in any particular order. Yes, Ocarina of Time IS the starting point of the series, because Ganon is still Ganondorf, and no one knows his true intentions. Majora's Mask is obviously a sequel to OoT.

This is where it gets tricky. The box and title of Link to the Past would indicate that it happens before the first Zelda. There is one problem with this though. Namely, at the end of LttP, Link obtains the unified Triforce and wishes for Ganon and the Dark World to vanish completely. So, then, how did Ganon return if he was "wished away" by Link? Further, if Link obtained the unified Triforce, how did Ganon get the Triforce of Power? It doesn't work, at least in my opinion.

To further complicate matters was Windwaker. With its multiple references to OoT and MM, it is obvious that it was a sequel to those games. However, at the end of WW, Hyrule is completely destroyed, never to be resurrected. This presents a problem. If Hyrule is destroyed, obviously the other Zelda games cannot occur after WW. Ganon is recently resurrected and thinks Link is the Hero of Time from OoT, meaning that the other Zelda games could not have happened before WW.

The only games (I think) that we can safely say happen in the same universe are these:

(1) Ocarina of Time, then Majora's Mask, then Windwaker.

For reasons stated above.

In another universe:

(2) The Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and then probably Oracle of Seasons/Ages.

Zelda II obviously happens after Zelda I. Reason being, Ganon is dead, and the monsters are trying to kill Link to use Link's blood to resurrect Ganon. I put the Oracle series in there too because Ganon is dead in that one as well, and Koume and Kotake are trying to resurrect Ganon.

In another universe:

(3) Minnish Cap, Four Swords.

Okay, Minnish Cap is obviously a prequel to Four Swords.

Finally:

(4) Link to the Past

This one is rough...it doesn't fit in between OoT/MM and Windwaker. Ganon is destroyed at the end of LttP, and the unified Triforce is used by Link to bring peace to the land. So, Windwaker couldn't possibly happen after LttP, meaning it can't be in the same universe as OoT (if it wasn't for WW, LttP would fit VERY nicely after it). The trident Ganon acquires in Four Swords DOES look a lot like the one he uses in LttP, so one could say that it's the same universe...but Ganon is sealed into the Four Sword at the end of that game, meaning another game would be required to release Ganon, and to be able to put them in the same universe.

Now, the only one left is Link's Awakening. The manual states that it occurs after Link beats Ganon. Since nothing story-altering occurs in LA, it could fit safely after the original LoZ or LttP, so that one could occur in either universe, really.

And that, I think, covers all the Zelda games released, with the exception of the Phillips CD-i games...which I shall never speak of again.

This is my opinion, though. To put all the games in one single universe, to me, takes a LOT of story stretching and assumptions that the games don't say. I go directly on what information is presented in the games. To me, it is impossible to put the games in a single universe unless you assume. If you go directly on the games, with no assumption whatsoever, you need at least four universes. ^^

Im talken about the first game and the cartoon series here n_n

The cartoon, I will give you that one. But Zelda II happens in the same universe as Zelda I, as far as I can tell, and the Triforce of Courage was what Link was trying to obtain in Zelda II. Therefore, the Triforce of Courage must have been a tangible Triforce in Zelda I, it just wasn't present because it was lost...which is why Link had to try to find it in Zelda II.

putting them in chronological order is not easy, because the developers pretty much screwed up their timeline, metroid is also one with a weird timeline. And what im saying is there could be multiple timelines

To further complicate matters was Windwaker. With its multiple references to OoT and MM, it is obvious that it was a sequel to those games. However, at the end of WW, Hyrule is completely destroyed, never to be resurrected. This presents a problem. If Hyrule is destroyed, obviously the other Zelda games cannot occur after WW. Ganon is recently resurrected and thinks Link is the Hero of Time from OoT, meaning that the other Zelda games could not have happened before WW.

Not necessarily. They could have rebuilt Hyrule. The new Zelda coming out this year may also further complicate the "TIMELINE" theries many people have. I believe it will come after the OoT and MM because there are horses in it and in WW, there were no horses.


The thing i want to bring up is the Shield in OoT. What is that 4th triforce underneath the birdlike figure supposed to be? A decoration? I think not. Also if you tilt the shiled you will find that it WOULD fit in the space between the other three. coincidence, i think not.

kaemmerite wrote:Now, the only one left is Link's Awakening. The manual states that it occurs after Link beats Ganon. Since nothing story-altering occurs in LA, it could fit safely after the original LoZ or LttP, so that one could occur in either universe, really.

I had thought it followed the original]The thing i want to bring up is the Shield in OoT. What is that 4th triforce underneath the birdlike figure supposed to be? A decoration? I think not. Also if you tilt the shiled you will find that it WOULD fit in the space between the other three. coincidence, i think not.[/QUOTE]

However, it could be. I don't have a direct answer, as I can't think of a good reason for it to be there, but similarly we don't have any reason to believe it does indicate a fourth Triforce. Why would the kingdom of Hyrule know of such a fourth piece?

Linksquest wrote:Not necessarily. They could have rebuilt Hyrule.

Zelda and Link actually say that at the end of Windwaker. They say, "We'll rebuild Hyrule!"

To which the King of Hyrule responds, "Yes, but the thing is...that land would not be Hyrule. It will be YOUR land."

So that destroys that theory.

Talk about confusing. I'm not going to rule out alternate realities and alternate universes just yet. Remeber, the Multiverse is vast, with parallel universes branching off, and becuase of certain events and vertain people's actions, creates alternate realities, which of course produces even more alternates and parallels.

Zelda and Link actually say that at the end of Windwaker. They say, "We'll rebuild Hyrule!"

To which the King of Hyrule responds, "Yes, but the thing is...that land would not be Hyrule. It will be YOUR land."

Meaning that it wouldnt be the SAME Hyrule... The new one could be a new land also named Hyrule. The King did not say, "this will be your land, NOT named Hyrule." He essentially said, 'You wont be rebuilding the Hyrule the same way this one was. It won't Be the OLD hyrule.' Out of their fondness of the OLD hyrule, i don't see why its so strange for them to name the new land Hyrule after the old Hyrule.

::amending previous post::

Sorry Kaemmerite! I think you're correct on this. Looking at the following context of the convo btwn the King with Zelda and Link at the end of WW i dont think the new land CAN be named Hyrule:

ZELDA:

W-Wait!

You could... You could come with us!

Yes, of course... We have a ship!
We can find it!
We WILL find it!

The land that will be the next Hyrule!

So...


KING:

...

Ah, but child... That land will not
be Hyrule.



I dont know. Its tricky. It all depens on what he means by, "not be hyrule." because Zelda just said "the land that will be the next Hyrule." He could still mean it wont be the same Hyrule reborn. But it think im siding with Kaemmerite on this one.

Ok, the same but different Hyrule, now the interesting question is, what will make it different?

Ok, the same but different Hyrule, now the interesting question is, what will make it different?

If that would be the case, just look at the trailers for the new Zelda. Gorons are fighting link, there is some strange rivalry there. The forests are taller, the castle isnt the same, the creatures living in the "New Hyrule" would be different, as with locations will be different.

But as i said before i am siding with Kaemmerite... i dont think it will be a new Hyrule

Linksquest wrote:If that would be the case, just look at the trailers for the new Zelda. Gorons are fighting link, there is some strange rivalry there. The forests are taller, the castle isnt the same, the creatures living in the "New Hyrule" would be different, as with locations will be different.

But as i said before i am siding with Kaemmerite... i dont think it will be a new Hyrule

Well, I suppose it would depend on whether this is a sequel to Windwaker or not. Most gamers ARE calling it a sequel to Windwaker, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is. If it is, then obviously it can't be Hyrule...if it isn't, this could conceivably create a FIFTH Zelda universe. Either way, all I know is I want it to hurry up and get here. ^^

kaemmerite wrote:Well, I suppose it would depend on whether this is a sequel to Windwaker or not. Most gamers ARE calling it a sequel to Windwaker, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is. If it is, then obviously it can't be Hyrule...if it isn't, this could conceivably create a FIFTH Zelda universe. Either way, all I know is I want it to hurry up and get here. ^^

But it CANT be a sequel to WW. There is a horse in the trailer for ZELDA2005. There are no horses in WW. They all died in the water (using the logic from point a ---> point b in which there were in ocarina/mm but none in WW). Also the Gohma like figure in the trailer points to a more OoT setting than an after WW setting. Using the "evolution" of the kokiris --> koroks and other changes that had to take place from OoT ---> WW, it is impossible that ZELDA2005 is the sequel to WW.