Countdown to MGS4

[Fish and Chips]

No game is beyond criticism. I'll accept Yahztee's commentary with a grain of salt that he and I expected different things from MGS. Yahztee is famously in favor of games sporting a strong story, but prefers them to take advantage of the fact that they are games, i.e. interactive. While I share his position, I am satisfied with a good game with a good story pre-packaged, whereas he's a bit more staunch than I am. If MGS allowed players more direct control over events rather than just location, cutscene, location, cutscene, he'd be far more charitable towards Kojima's efforts.

And MGS has always been excessively wordy. Love it or leave it.

[mechana2015]

At this time... I just want the full soundtrack.

[Omega Amen]

At this time... I just want the full soundtrack.

The full soundtrack has only been released in Japan. However, you can order it from Amazon if you are willing to pay the price (and if it is in stock). I am tempted to get the full soundtrack myself.

In the meantime, people have been uploading some music on youtube. Here is Old Snake's theme that you would hear in the title/menu screen.


Steve, yes, you are correct. See below:
[spoiler]Yes, Ocelot intentionally changed his personality to emulate Liquid via self-hypnosis and drugs. Big Boss reveals this at the end, and this is also explicitly stated in the Metal Gear Solid 4 Database that can be downloaded for free on PSN. The presence of Liquid's arm is not the real cause of any psyche change in Ocelot.[/spoiler]


And for those who want to try to get the Big Boss emblem/title, and you want some tips:

Look at this youtube video of a non-stop playthrough that earns it in less than 3 hours. Of course, spoilers abound.

[mechana2015]

I'm hoping for iTunes or stateside release... I just went back and acquired music from MGS's 1-3 and I really like a lot of it, especially the 3 soundtrack. The songs snake eater, the end title track for 3 and "Cant say goodbye to yesterday" really blow me away, as does the orchestral music from 3. I'm kinda anxious to hear what they did with the OST for 4.

[Bobtheduck]

[SPOILER]I mentioned this to Jamie the other day...did anyone else catch the whole Ocelot thing? As he dies, he mentions being a mental doppleganger of Liquid...I kinda let that fly by...but then again at the end, Big Boss acts like Ocelot was faking the Liquid thing to trick the Patriots. Is this the case? Or am I nuts? lol. It sounded like he faked the whole arm taking him over bit. They mention him using hypnosis and other means to do this.[/SPOILER]

Yup... As Omega said, that's exactly what happened, though that doesn't quite explain why [spoiler]he had Liquid's voice in MGS2, and why they made the revelation that he was the son of a medium in MGS3... That's one of the plot points that actually kind of bugs me, because it contradicts things they set up before.

In Japan, for MGS4 they planned on using Ocelot's voice instead of Liquid's, but Ocelot's Japanese voice actor was dead, so they used Liquid's old voice actor, so the Japanese voice cast was at least consistent...[/spoiler]

[Solid Ronin]

David Hayter speaks out on MGS4!

SPOILER WARNING!

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168559

[spoiler] I agree with him, Snake should have killed himself, But I also though that Big Boss shot the gun outta his mouth..

Also He wants to write The MGS Movie ... that sounds to smart for Hollywood to do.[/spoiler]

[Etoh*the*Greato]

At this time... I just want the full soundtrack.

Is it still a Gregson-Williams score?

[Bobtheduck]

Is it still a Gregson-Williams score?

Yes, though some songs were written by his old composer (gotta remember the thing was supposed to feel like it tapped into all the previous games)

[LiquidOcelot]

I loved MGS4. I miss games with lots of dialogue and deep storylines. Along with interesting characters that have particular flaws. It's sad that there are lots of gamers who complain about cutscenes. What's wrong with some variety? Most games nowadays don't have a lot of cutscenes and definitely not the "quiet" character interaction cutscenes that MGS4 has. When a game with lots of dialogue finally appears people often complain. Oh well.

I always find MGS games to have the most easter eggs/secrets. Flexible, fun gameplay! I love being able to choose whether to use lethal or non-lethal force. And, you can tell how much time and care Kojima puts into his games. From what I read he is quite a perfectionist. The attention to detail is truly outstanding.

And, there is great challenge. Try going for all the emblems. A no kills/no alerts game. Try going for the BBE!

Anyways, these days shooters tend to be more about online/multiplayer play. Even fun ones like COD4. That one is much more focussed on online competition. Very few people I know ever talked about the single player mode much. The main excitement and focus was on the multiplayer aspect.

There are the rare exceptions. But, I miss story driven games like Xenogears. So what if it isn't for everyone. Movies, music, sports, tv, etc...they don't always aim simply for the largest demographics. I wish more developers for console games made more "artsy" games instead of just going with the most popular styles. It's sad that so few developers are willing to take chances anymore.

I'm glad that Kojima put lengthy cutscenes. Most games totally neglect story now. As you can see by what type of games flood the market these days. Mainly shooters, sports and racing. Those are definitely about competitive online gaming. There are very fun games in those genres. But, often they are dry fun in single player mode. I wish there was a little more balance when it comes to variety.

Note, I never say that there shouldn't be these types of games. Just that there are so many of them compared to other genres.

It's sad that there are so few Japanese RPGs coming out to the US anymore. And, even those mostly are for either handhelds like DS or PSP not the consoles. But, then it seems like handhelds are selling very well in Japan. So, it's not surprising that there would be more J-RPGs now for handheld instead of console.

I also am disappointed that so many shooter games feature dull colours. Oh well, this is getting lengthy so I'll stop.

[Bobtheduck]

I just want to say to everyone... I SWEAR I didn't make a second account to make that post. Haha! Anyhow, on to the response:

I loved MGS4. I miss games with lots of dialogue and deep storylines. Along with interesting characters that have particular flaws. It's sad that there are lots of gamers who complain about cutscenes. What's wrong with some variety? Most games nowadays don't have a lot of cutscenes and definitely not the "quiet" character interaction cutscenes that MGS4 has. When a game with lots of dialogue finally appears people often complain. Oh well.

You've just vocalized (quite well) some of my deepest beliefs about games. On another forum there are people there that believe that things like Wii Sports or whatever are the way to go, and lament the story and cutscene intensive games, as if they're somehow ruining the industry. I never felt that more variety ruined anything. Quite the opposite, I think if the Industry all went the way of Wii Sports, THAT would be a huge, crying shame, and that's what I'm afraid of, with the very one dimensional thinking that the big companies have about their games.

I always find MGS games to have the most easter eggs/secrets. Flexible, fun gameplay! I love being able to choose whether to use lethal or non-lethal force.

Oh, me too... I had a number of friends complain about that. I told them about the Big Boss run, where you had to play on extreme, not kill anyone, not get caught, and do it under 5 hours... They just looked at me funny when I did, and one said "Whatever happened to just beating a game" They thought the idea of tranqs in a game was stupid.

And, you can tell how much time and care Kojima puts into his games. From what I read he is quite a perfectionist. The attention to detail is truly outstanding.

Definitely. And I'm glad it pays off for him. Back to my previous worry, I think this attention to detail will pay off less and less as time goes on. It paid off for him because he's freaking Kojima, and he has a name, as does his game. If someone like me got into the industry and made a game, I doubt it'd pay off for me.

And, there is great challenge. Try going for all the emblems. A no kills/no alerts game. Try going for the BBE!

I have to beat boss extreme first, and get my no kill game first too... A no kill game when you're not allowed to buy tranqs is asking a LOT.

Anyways, these days shooters tend to be more about online/multiplayer play. Even fun ones like COD4. That one is much more focussed on online competition. Very few people I know ever talked about the single player mode much. The main excitement and focus was on the multiplayer aspect.

This has honestly been a problem since quake and Goldeneye... Great multiplayer games are a nice addition, but they are always second place to an incredible single player game...

There are the rare exceptions.

If you're a fan of movie games, you may want to check out the upcoming "Heavy Rain" by the same team that made "Indigo Prophecy" They've been improving their system, and they impressed a small room full of reporters they made sign an NDA (the game will probably get shown to the public at Leipzig) so I'm getting pretty excited about it.

But, I miss story driven games like Xenogears. So what if it isn't for everyone. Movies, music, sports, tv, etc...they don't always aim simply for the largest demographics. I wish more developers for console games made more "artsy" games instead of just going with the most popular styles. It's sad that so few developers are willing to take chances anymore.

Clover took chances... Made great games, and lost a LOT of money... Overall, games are cheaper to make than movies, but they sell less, and they have a higher floor than movies do, so it takes a lot more to make an artsy game, and no matter how good the game is, it will be looked at as a financial failure unless it grosses 3x the cost to make it.

I'm glad that Kojima put lengthy cutscenes. Most games totally neglect story now. As you can see by what type of games flood the market these days. Mainly shooters, sports and racing. Those are definitely about competitive online gaming. There are very fun games in those genres. But, often they are dry fun in single player mode. I wish there was a little more balance when it comes to variety.

Note, I never say that there shouldn't be these types of games. Just that there are so many of them compared to other genres.

I agree... The Console industry is facing the same genre deaths as the PC industry faced in the '90s... I guess we have the handhelds left that haven't succumbed.

It's sad that there are so few Japanese RPGs coming out to the US anymore. And, even those mostly are for either handhelds like DS or PSP not the consoles. But, then it seems like handhelds are selling very well in Japan. So, it's not surprising that there would be more J-RPGs now for handheld instead of console.

Well, thankfully, I have a PSP slim and can hook my PSP up to a TV... Unfortunately, it doesn't actually take up the whole screen when you play a game, so it doesn't matter in the end... Rackum frackum deceptive sons of kappas... There goes my ideal portable + console.

I also am disappointed that so many shooter games feature dull colours. Oh well, this is getting lengthy so I'll stop.

Honestly, controlled color pallets don't bother me... You may not have noticed, but MGS4 did the same thing... It wasn't over the whole game, or at least, it changed from Chapter to chapter, but it was there... Chapter 3 took brown to a whole new level, and the cargo plane was mighty gray. Besides, there are enough games with a lot of color, I like that there is a variety.

Good post, though. You and I seem to be kindred spirits in this respect.

[LiquidOcelot]

I think if the Industry all went the way of Wii Sports, THAT would be a huge, crying shame, and that's what I'm afraid of, with the very one dimensional thinking that the big companies have about their games.

I agree. There is a place for those games. But, I hope that doesn't happen. When I think of Wii Sports type games. I think of games that are fun to play when you have friends over or at a party. But, it certainly is more for casual fun. It really offers nothing deep or smart.

They just looked at me funny when I did, and one said "Whatever happened to just beating a game" They thought the idea of tranqs in a game was stupid.

That's just sad they feel that way. It adds another way to go through the game. If they don't want to use tranqs they don't have to. And, again I like how flexible the gameplay is and how it rewards non-lethal style. It adds to replay value.

Plus, I think that's been a feature since MGS2. And, I think the remake of MGS...MGS: The Twin Snakes also had a tranqulizer gun in it.
So, in essence it's been a staple of the MGS series.

Definitely. And I'm glad it pays off for him. Back to my previous worry, I think this attention to detail will pay off less and less as time goes on. It paid off for him because he's freaking Kojima, and he has a name, as does his game. If someone like me got into the industry and made a game, I doubt it'd pay off for me.

Yeah, that's probably true. It's takes a lot of time, effort and money to have such attention to detail. And, very few developers have a big enough name that can get such support from the company. I think Konami and Kojima have a good relationship. Konami isn't going to alienate him. Well, Kojima has his own company as well.

I have to beat boss extreme first, and get my no kill game first too... A no kill game when you're not allowed to buy tranqs is asking a LOT.

That's where having the Solar Gun comes in very handy. And, the emotive ammo and smoke grenades are also useful. Solar Gun is handy because it stuns the enemy and they sometimes drop tranquilizer ammo.

I've read on other boards about people completing a BBE run on a totally new game. Now, that is really hard. At least on a replay you an carry over weapons and stuff.

This has honestly been a problem since quake and Goldeneye... Great multiplayer games are a nice addition, but they are always second place to an incredible single player game...

That's my exact thought. Single player is always first for me as well. I find multiplayers games to be fun and competitive. But, there's nothing like a superb single player game. It's a much different type of experience.

I think it also is due to the fact. That each session of multiplayer games is usually short and not nearly as memorable. I mean you could play for a long time. But, you would play a lot of scenarios or head-to-head matchups.

Unless of course you are talking about online RPGs or MMORPGs. And, still even though those are more about cooperative play. Often those are 'competitive' in terms of who has accomplished the most and competing for the best spots to camp. Gosh, that's the one thing I hated about MMORPGs. Other than potty mouth players and also condescending know-it-alls. Arguments over players constantly camping and using bots, etc... I remember that from the time I had played FFXI.

Oh and one other thing I notice about multiplayer games. If you play a shooter game where it's a team v. team game. And, it requires good strategy. Often players will still just play like it's them against everyone. And, that just makes it so hard to enjoy. Unless you have a consistent team. It's hard to play certain online-shooter games.

If you're a fan of movie games, you may want to check out the upcoming "Heavy Rain" by the same team that made "Indigo Prophecy"

I never had the chance to play Indigo Prophecy. But, I did play the demo that was included one of the Playstation magazine discs. And, it looked like quite an intriguing mystery. I like mysteries very much.

So, I will have to check out both Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain then.

Clover took chances... Made great games, and lost a LOT of money... Overall, games are cheaper to make than movies, but they sell less, and they have a higher floor than movies do, so it takes a lot more to make an artsy game, and no matter how good the game is, it will be looked at as a financial failure unless it grosses 3x the cost to make it.

Clover made Okami right? That was that neat artsy Japanese game that featured the paint brush. It's too bad that didn't sell well then.

Yeah, that's a really good point! Despite how huge the video game industry is and how much money is involved. There are still less people who play video games than watch movies. So, no wonder video games cost so much and no wonder there isn't as much variety.

But, then it's quite disappointing to me that there doesn't seem be much place for any turn-based or strategy games on the consoles anymore. I know there is Disgaea 3 coming up. But, I can just imagine how many people are going to criticize the sprite graphics. That's another thing I wonder about. Even though everyone always says gameplay is more important than graphics. It's seems very hard for a lot of people to play games that don't have 'next gen' type graphics. That's sad. Because, I still love sprite games. FFT is one of my favourite games ever.

I agree... The Console industry is facing the same genre deaths as the PC industry faced in the '90s... I guess we have the handhelds left that haven't succumbed.

Yeah, there isn't as much variety for PC either. But, it does seem like there are still some 'older' type games on PC. I mean there are still some 'point and click' adventures. Though, there doesn't seem to be many Myst type games anymore.

But, there does seem to be more acceptance of lower costing games on PC. However, I think that has a lot to do with Sony, MS and Nintendo. They don't want cheaper games on their consoles. In a way I can understand that. Since, none of them do that. They don't feel any need to lower the prices. Well, I guess Nintendo stuff is cheaper than Sony and MS. Another reason why they are selling well.

Well, thankfully, I have a PSP slim and can hook my PSP up to a TV... Unfortunately, it doesn't actually take up the whole screen when you play a game, so it doesn't matter in the end... Rackum frackum deceptive sons of kappas... There goes my ideal portable + console.

That sounds nice. I haven't tried that yet. I have been able to connect my PSP to my PS3 and computer. I now have backup saves on my computer. I don't have an extra memory stick yet. So, at least I can keep backups elsewhere.

Have you tried remote playing PS1 games on the PS3 and using the PSP? I heard that unfortunately it can be a little slow. But, perhaps with the slim it is faster. I do have a slim as well. But, I haven't tried remote play yet.

Also, I haven't tried custom firmware. Although, it seems like the rage nowadays. Every board that I've been to about the PSP. People always talking about custom firmware. I guess people love playing games off the memory stick and not the UMD. It's faster I guess.

Honestly, controlled color pallets don't bother me... You may not have noticed, but MGS4 did the same thing... It wasn't over the whole game, or at least, it changed from Chapter to chapter, but it was there... Chapter 3 took brown to a whole new level, and the cargo plane was mighty gray. Besides, there are enough games with a lot of color, I like that there is a variety.

Yeah, I guess so. MGS4 did have a lot of grey and brown. But, it also had some nice interiors. Like the mansion in Act 2. I found lots of interesting OctoCamo patterns there. There are some interesting varieties of camouflage that you can find. Yeah, Act 3 was also at night so there was a lot of brown and black. I guess the cargo plane for the mission briefings was very grey.

Well, at least fantasy games are usually more colourful. So, there are games with colour. It would be nice to see a shooter try it though.

Good post, though. You and I seem to be kindred spirits in this respect.

Thanks, your post was very good too.

I'm glad that you have similar thoughts about videogames. I often feel like I am in the minority when it comes to videogaming opinions.

Oh, I just noticed from a post of yours that you probably are even a bigger fan of MGS series than I am. The LE version must be quite nice!

[Mr. SmartyPants]

This has honestly been a problem since quake and Goldeneye... Great multiplayer games are a nice addition, but they are always second place to an incredible single player game...

But what about games that were solely made FOR multiplayer? Great examples that come to mind are all the Half-Life 2 mods out there, such as Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: Source, and of course my favorite multiplayer game of all time: Team Fortress 2? They all feature zero single player aspects, yet they are great games. I can't really imagine those games working well in Single Player. They tried it with Counter-Strike, and it was a good game, but that's all it was: A good game. I enjoyed it, but there wasn't much replay value.

Now that's not to say that Single Player games are bad. No way! COD, Half-Life, MGS, all of them have amazing single player campaigns. But I think some games can be appreciated more for their multiplayer value as opposed to other games based on their mechanics.

Half-Life Deathmatch wasn't that great of a multiplayer game. It was basically all the half-life weapons and mechanics + fight to the deat with others. It was more of an add-on and it kinda sucked. But all the other mods that were made for specifically multiplayer in mind all turned out to win the test of time.

A game that excels in both single and multiplayer however, is always a good thing.

[Bobtheduck]

But what about games that were solely made FOR multiplayer? Great examples that come to mind are all the Half-Life 2 mods out there, such as Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: Source, and of course my favorite multiplayer game of all time: Team Fortress 2? They all feature zero single player aspects, yet they are great games. I can't really imagine those games working well in Single Player. They tried it with Counter-Strike, and it was a good game, but that's all it was: A good game. I enjoyed it, but there wasn't much replay value.

Now that's not to say that Single Player games are bad. No way! COD, Half-Life, MGS, all of them have amazing single player campaigns. But I think some games can be appreciated more for their multiplayer value as opposed to other games based on their mechanics.

Half-Life Deathmatch wasn't that great of a multiplayer game. It was basically all the half-life weapons and mechanics + fight to the deat with others. It was more of an add-on and it kinda sucked. But all the other mods that were made for specifically multiplayer in mind all turned out to win the test of time.

A game that excels in both single and multiplayer however, is always a good thing.

Actually, what I meant was what mattered more to me was single player. I know there are games that will focus on multiplayer... I mean, Rock Band is nearly pointless with only one person... If you're into Karaoke, Singstar does it WAY better; if you're into guitar, Guitar Hero is more for you, but it excels in having 4 people together fake rocking out...

I love Rock Band (went in halfsies on the bundle with a friend) but my top priority games will always be story based single player games, with co-op being the furthest I'll extend into the realm of multiplayer for those (ala Secret of Mana) for my top priority games.

What I've seen since Goldeneye, though, is a slow shift away from solid single player experiences... It's to the point games get marked down if they don't have multiplayer, and now they're marked down if they don't have an online, further degrading things... I mean, I like playing with people in the same room, and even multiplayer focused games are starting to go exclusively online with no local... It drives the experience further and further away from the reasons I got into games in the first place... I love playing online with friends, but not at the expense of those other things... Not at the expense of local multiplayer, and not at the expense of solid stories and single player experiences. And that HAS happened... The people with the money don't look at these as niches to fill, they look at it 1 dimensionally, with "Online games sell, singleplayer games don't" (look at freaking Phil Harrison, who I consider one of the biggest traitors in the industry, not because he left Sony but because of his push to phase out single player, story driven games) and "Party games sell, games for the gamers who've been gaming for 10 years don't."

That's all I'm really saying.